Legislature(1997 - 1998)
03/10/1997 03:40 PM Senate RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE
March 10, 1997
3:40 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Rick Halford, Chairman
Senator Lyda Green, Vice Chairman
Senator Loren Leman
Senator Bert Sharp
Senator Robin Taylor
Senator Georgianna Lincoln
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator John Torgerson
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 64(CRA)
"An Act relating to the Shuyak Island State Park."
- MOVED CSSB 64(RES) FROM COMMITTEE
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 20
Requesting the United States Congress to accommodate Alaska's
unique wetlands circumstances by amending the Clean Water Act to
modify the wetlands regulatory program and to recognize Alaska's
outstanding history of wetlands conservation.
- MOVED CSSJR 20(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 16
Relating to reauthorization and reform of the Endangered Species
Act.
- MOVED CSSJR 16(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
SB 64 - Community & Regional Affairs minutes dated 2/3/97 and
3/10/97.
SJR 20 - No previous action to consider.
SJR 16 - See Resource Committee minutes dated 3/5/97.
WITNESS REGISTER
Senator Mackie
State Capitol Bldg.
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of SB 64.
Mr. Jerome Selby
Kodiak, AK 99615
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 64.
Ms. Carol Carrol
Department of Natural Resources
400 Willoughby Ave.
Juneau, AK 99801-1724
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 64.
Ms. Kim Schmidt
P.O. Box 20487
Juneau, AK 99802
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 64.
Mr. Dick Bishop, Executive Director
Alaska Outdoor Council
211 4th St., #302
Juneau, AK 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 64.
Ms. Loreli Meier, Intern
Senator Leman
State Capitol Bldg.
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Read Sponsor Statement.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 97-17, SIDE A
Number 001
SB 64 SHUYAK ISLAND STATE PARK
CHAIRMAN HALFORD called the Senate Resources Committee meeting to
order at 3:40 p.m. and announced CSSB 64 to be up for
consideration.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved to adopt the Resources Committee CS. There
were no objections and it was so ordered. SENATOR LINCOLN objected
to hear the changes.
SENATOR MACKIE, sponsor of SB 64, said the CS adopts the amendments
that were made in the House Resources Committee dealing with
traditional access and protection of hunting and commercial fishing
activities within the Park. He said he introduced the bill at the
request of Mayor Selby and the Kodiak Island Borough Assembly. It
presents one of the final actions of a long and complex effort by
State and federal authorities and local affected municipalities to
compensate for the effects of the Valdez oil spill. The bill adds
specific land and water areas to the Shuyak State Park which was
the first part of the Borough that was heavily impacted by the
westward streaming oil patches from the 1989 accident.
The two large land owners on Shuyak Island are the State and Kodiak
Island Borough. Previous litigation had imposed management
restrictions that required the State to maintain wildlife habitat
and public recreation values while the Borough was partially
prohibited from commercial or industrial uses on its lands. In
1984 the Shuyak State Park was established from part of the State's
holdings to protect the areas fish and wildlife habitat and public
recreational activities while maintaining customary fishing and
hunting uses.
One of the provisions of the spill settlement was the establishment
of a joint federal/State Council to manage the remediation and
recovery efforts. Those responsibilities include the replacement
of lost fish and wildlife habitat with the acquisition and
protection of other high value habitat. It is for this purpose
that the Oil Spill Trustee Council selected the Borough Shuyak
Island lands and purchased them in 1996. The final part of this
effort is the consolidation of the lands under the protective
management of the Shuyak State Park. SB 64 completes this
transaction by formally incorporating all State lands on the Island
into the Shuyak Island State Park. The expanded park retains the
management goals, purposes, and allowed use of the original park.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked what the fish and wildlife habitat were being
protected from. SENATOR MACKIE said Mr. Selby should respond to
that question when he addresses the Committee via teleconference.
MR. JEROME SELBY, Kodiak, said this is an effort from the community
that has been on-going for about 10-years. Shuyak Island was
identified as one of the highest value habitats for the injured
species long-term recovery after the Exxon Valdez oil spill.
On Kodiak Island, he said, they don't look at it as locking
something up, but as opening it to opportunities for a different
type of development, tourism. He said they already have logging
going on Afognak Island and this gives them a chance to diversify.
He said the State Parks has about four cabins up there already that
are very heavily used.
He said the language in the CS really deals more with establishing
the rights for use by people and enhances traditional public access
and use of the area's natural resources for various activities.
SENATOR MACKIE stated that he had no knowledge of opposition to
this bill including hunting groups and other recreational users,
both in Kodiak and other areas as long as the bill keeps this
wording.
SENATOR LINCOLN withdrew her objection. There were no further
objections and the CS for SB 64 was adopted.
There was discussion of the acreage in the park. SENATOR TAYLOR
asked for the total acreage. MR. SELBY said it was 35,000 acres.
SENATOR TAYLOR calculated and said it had to be more than that -
around 38,000 acres.
SENATOR MACKIE asked if there were certain provisions requiring the
land had to be in State park status for it to be a valid agreement.
MR. SELBY replied that was right and basically were some deed
restrictions on the sale of the land and that was reviewed by the
Legislative Budget and Audit Committee at the time they approved
the purchase. However, the focus of the legislation is different
than a plain parks bill, because it's directed more towards
hunting, fishing, and traditional uses.
SENATOR TAYLOR said his concern is that this legislation
significantly restricts other valid uses of the property. He said
that changing the land to a park does not protect it from another
oil spill.
SENATOR SHARP asked if there was anything in the agreement with the
Trustees Council on the purchase of the Borough land to be
incorporated with the existing State Park that would require the
remaining State lands to be part of the deal. MR. SELBY said there
was nothing in the agreement on that issue because it dealt only
with the 26,000 that was sold by Kodiak Island Borough and the deed
restrictions would apply only to land that was actually sold.
SENATOR SHARP asked if any of the streams were navigable for
access. MR. SELBY replied that the streams aren't large enough to
be considered navigable waters.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said he liked the agreement because it gets $42
million away from the Exxon Valdez trustees and gives it to one of
the municipalities. He wished there was a way to get it to other
municipalities as well.
Number 313
SENATOR LEMAN asked what process was going to be followed to
determine what firearm prohibitions are and would the
interpretation of "for personal protection" keep people from other
activities that they may currently be doing, like recreational
target practice, etc. SENATOR MACKIE said there needed to be some
ability to restrict shooting around campgrounds and ranger stations
while still allowing people to carry sidearms.
MS. CAROL CARROL, Department of Natural Resources, explained that
the way the Division of Parks would implement any kind of
restriction of discharge of a firearm would be through a park plan
and that plan would identify where areas would be developed. If it
would be a campground, at the time that campground is developed,
they would put a regulation in place that would restrict discharge
of a firearm for a quarter mile around that area which is how the
public use cabins are now.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked why it was necessary to change the language
regarding the use of weapons in unique areas that may be closed for
purposes of public safety. SENATOR MACKIE said the House Resources
Committee felt this language would better guaranteed that people
would be able to carry firearms for personal protection, sports and
hunting. MS. CARROL said they were at that meeting and they do not
have a problem with this.
SENATOR SHARP said he would be more comfortable on line 5 if it
said "possession" instead of "use" and on line 6 "restricted" use
of a weapon instead of "prohibited." There followed some
discussion as to the exact wording. SENATOR LEMAN said he wanted
to protect the ability to carry and use a firearm, but the use can
be restricted.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved to insert on page 4, line 5 -7 (b) Possession
and use of the weapon may be restricted only under extraordinary
circumstances and only in such areas where public safety is
threatened. There were no objections and it was so ordered.
SENATOR MACKIE noted the other part they may be interested in
starts on line 14 and speaks to traditional access for traditional
hunting, sport, and subsistence uses in State parks and State
lands.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said the last sentence change at the bottom of
page 4 makes the idea more cumbersome and implies a statement
supporting acquisition of private land.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved to amend page 5, line 1 to reinsert "not" and
delete the word "except" as underlined so the line would read, "The
Commissioner may not acquire land and water within the boundaries
of the Shuyak State Park by eminent domain." There were no
objections and it was adopted.
MS. KIM SCHMIDT supported SB 64. She said she had worked on Shuyak
Island in the summer of 1995 as an Alaska State Parks volunteer and
wanted to underscore how widely used this park is. SENATOR TAYLOR
asked how many additional cabins needed to be built. She said
projections would have to be made and rustic campsites would also
have to be considered. She said there was possibly one private
business in the form of a hunting lodge on the Island; however, it
might be closed.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked what impact there would be on the mining
claims that are in the park. MS. SCHMIDT said she knew of only one
that was in the park and it was used more as a fish camp than an
actual mining cite.
SENATOR SHARP asked if there was other wildlife on there that was
hunted. MS. SCHMIDT replied that there is a little bit of
everything and the interior is densely forested, the shoreline has
open spaces; there is incredible marine mammal life. She said it's
pretty low, the highest spot being 508 ft.
SENATOR TAYLOR said that all the Sitka black tailed deer were
introduced to that Island in 1927 by the federal government.
MR. DICK BISHOP, Alaska Outdoor Council, noted that 60% of Alaska
is in federal ownership and under ANILCA subsistence has priority
use on federal lands over other uses of fish and game except for
non-consumptive uses. The potential is always there to lose
opportunity for hunting and trapping and conceivably fishing.
He thought this bill needed strengthening to reassure the
opportunities for hunting and fishing were protected. It does not
mean they couldn't be properly restricted with regard to seasons
and bag limits and other measures that are necessary for sound
biological management. He said the McNeil State Game Refuge was an
example where the legislature chose to leave the regulation of the
use of the fish and game to the Boards. Everyone was happy with
that, but because it was politically correct, the Board of Game
eventually closed the McNeil Refuge to the opportunity to hunt
brown bears in that area. He thought that set a dangerous
precedent in terms of Board action. This is why the Alaska Outdoor
Council would like to see additional assurance of the protection of
legitimate, lawful, appropriate, and traditional uses of the
State's fish and wildlife by the public.
SENATOR SHARP commented that he was present when that was put
through. Assurance was even put in the statute about bear hunting,
in particular, being allowed. The only justification for that bill
was that they had installed a fish ladder on the Paint River which
they thought would draw bears from McNeil. Then they realized they
would be killing the bears with names. SENATOR LEMAN said the fish
ladder never became functional because of lawsuits against Cook
Inlet Aquaculture Association.
TAPE 97-17, SIDE B
SENATOR TAYLOR moved to adopt amendment #1, Luckhaupt3/10/97B.1
which would accomplish the substance of Mr. Bishop's testimony. It
allows for the temporary implementation of emergency closures or
regulations due to a biological emergency which, he believed, would
allow sufficient leeway to allow the commercial fishing agencies to
move markers in and out of various bays which they have been doing
historically, anyhow. If they were going to do a permanent
closure, they would still have to come back to the legislature and
make that as a policy call.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked how this related to normal seasons, bag
limits, openings, closures, etc.
SENATOR MACKIE asked if all seasons had to be approved by the
legislature, as well. His two concerns with the amendment are that
he saw this amendment five minutes before the meeting started and
that he didn't know if it was good policy to bring management
decisions back to the legislature for approval. He does support
the efforts being made to make sure traditional access and use is
not restricted on public lands in the State. Tying it in to this
one specific park gives him concern also. He thought they should
find a solution for that particular problem (McNeil River), but
maybe address it in a bill that would include all parks. He said
he would appreciate not adopting this amendment until they have an
opportunity to address his and the Chairman's concerns.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said he thought it was legitimate to bring it up
specifically in this bill, but he thought they needed the correct
language. His concern is if this bill passes, it's possible for
half the Island to become a viewing operation and be closed to
hunting, but being supported and managed through the fees of
hunters and fishermen.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved on line 13 to insert "permanently" between the
words "not closed" and delete the words "temporary and" on line 16.
SENATOR MACKIE said he thought it would be really far fetched to
assume something like McNeil River would happen again especially
with it being in statute that they are not going to restrict lawful
use of sport, commercial, and traditional activities.
MR. BISHOP said that in the State Game book there are two or three
proposals to close areas on Kodiak Island to hunting in order to
accommodate wildlife viewing. Under federal regulations there are
numerous proposals restricting opportunities for the general public
to only local, qualified residents. SENATOR MACKIE noted that some
of the proposals being looked at on federal land would apply here
and asked if this poses a problem as far as the administration's
powers are versus the legislature's in terms of being able to enact
regulations which they are charged with doing. He is concerned
that there may be a problem generated by this amendment that will
bring down the whole bill.
SENATOR TAYLOR said he thought there was a constitutional conflict
if the legislature is given the authority to impose regulations,
because there's probably an inherent authority within the
Constitution for the Executive to impose those regulations that may
be necessary to carry out the laws that the legislature passes.
However, there's never been a finding of that on the State level.
The only case he's aware of on the federal level was the Babbit
decision that we never got to litigate. In that decision the court
literally said Congress must have meant to give the authority to
impose those regulations and they just forgot to, so authority is
assumed. He thought they could pass a law that says you cannot
pass any regulations upon this park and it would be upheld.
SENATOR LINCOLN said she had a real problem with line 15 of the
amendment, "approved by the legislature," and she suggested leaving
it out. She thought the legislature could close an area not
because of biological emergencies and the Board of Fisheries and
Board of Game is appointed to oversee and manage our resources for
abundance.
Number 370
SENATOR TAYLOR restated his motion and added to delete on line 15,
"(1) approved by the legislature; or) and on line 16 delete "(2)
temporary and." There were no objections and it was so adopted.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved to pass CSSB 64(RES) from committee with
individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was so
ordered.
SJR 20 MODIFY FED WETLANDS PROGRAM FOR AK NEEDS
CHAIRMAN LEMAN announced SJR 20 to be up for consideration.
MS. ANNETTE KREITZER, staff to Senator Leman, sponsor, said SJR 20
encourages Congress to amend the Federal Clean Water Act to
continue existing activities by listing as non-prohibited
discharges relating to airports, safety, logging, mining, ice pads,
roads, and snow removal without those activities being determined
to add to the cumulative loss of wetland nationally.
It asks Congress to provide flexibility in Alaska wetlands
permitting by allowing establishment of general permits for
discharge of dredged or fill material into disposal cites.
It would eliminate requests to Congress to eliminate existing
requirements to mitigate unavoidable impacts or to prove
alternative cites do not exist. It also would require the U.S.
Army Corps of Engineers to customize the permitting process for
lands conveyed under the Alaska Statehood Act and the Alaska Native
Claims Settlement Act, that does not include burdensome mitigation
or avoidance requirements.
SENATOR TAYLOR said he was curious about including the native
lands, because he hears they want federal control.
SENATOR GREEN said she was at a conference years ago when the
discussion was about agricultural lands after they had been
irrigated and then been classified as wetlands which, then, had
been contributed to their acreage and been subject to lack of
development and certain restrictions. She suggested inserting
"agricultural parcels."
MS. KREITZER said that she believed what has happened with those
lands is the modification of the term "navigable waters."
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said it looks like they are requesting the Corps
of Engineers to customize the permiting process for lands conveyed
to the State or for lands conveyed to native corporations, but what
about all the other private lands in Alaska. He thought they would
like that process to apply to all State land, all native land or
all private land together (which includes native lands). He said
for some reason it's drafted to apply to only Statehood Act
selections and Native Claims selections which he supports, but all
three are needed.
MS. KREITZER explained that SJR 20 is drafted in accordance with
the way SB 49 is drafted.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved to amend page 2, line 2 to read, "(4) require
the United States Army Corps of Engineers to customize a permitting
process for all lands in Alaska that does not include burdensome
mitigation, avoidance, and other requirements;"
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if it was the Corps of Engineers that decides
whether there is burdensome mitigation avoidance or other
requirements. SENATOR TAYLOR answered yes. SENATOR LINCOLN asked
if this resolution was not in the same language as Senator Stevens,
how would that affect his legislation. CHAIRMAN HALFORD said it
wouldn't be contrary and he thought they would have to look at it
like a letter of support that isn't worded the same way as a bill
they introduced affects them.
SENATOR GREEN pointed out that they had created an awkward sentence
and suggested this wording, "(4) require the United States Army
Corps of Engineers to customize a permitting process that does not
include burdensome mitigation, avoidance , and other requirements
for all lands in Alaska." SENATOR TAYLOR approved that wording.
There were no further objections and the amendment was adopted.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved the CSSJR 20(RES) with individual
recommendations. There were no objections and it was so ordered.
SJR 16 REFORM THE ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT
CHAIRMAN HALFORD announced SJR 16 to be up for consideration.
MS. LORELI MEIER, intern staff to Senator Leman, said that Senator
Leman's amendment is in response to concerns expressed by Ken
Taylor, Ron Somerville, and Chairman Halford. Mr. Taylor and Mr.
Somerville have agreed with the proposed amendments.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved to adopt the amendment. There were no
objections and it was so adopted.
SENATOR TAYLOR moved to pass CSSJR 16(RES) from committee with
individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was so
ordered.
CHAIRMAN HALFORD adjourned the meeting at 5:05 p.m.
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